Setting Aside the Blinders

Speaking as an average man among fellow average men, the idea that the average man – ESPECIALLY the average Christian – is picky about women is completely absurd. I don’t need to look up statistics to back this up. I’m telling you right now, it is an utterly ridiculous thing to think. Speaking for myself alone, my baseline for the sort of person I’d be willing to date – that is, consider marrying – is extremely broad. Age between 19 and 25, maybe 26, hair color irrelevant, height irrelevant, weight anywhere from slightly overweight (just slightly) to thin, chest size more or less irrelevant (I have my preferences because I’m a guy, but this would not be a dealbreaker with an otherwise pretty girl).

Education irrelevant, money irrelevant, living place irrelevant unless it’s particularly stupid (live with your parents fine, live with your ex/with a random dude who is “just living with you, nothing’s going on” no thanks).

What exactly am I looking for? Ah, here’s the rub. My standards probably WOULD be called picky despite all of this, because I would only date:

  • Somebody who is against premarital sex and has no kids, or – in a very rare, very specific, extreme situation, where both sides are thoroughly confident of the relationship going forward and how it should progress – a widow. This probably sounds strange to you, so before you jump down my throat, hear me out below.
  • A Christian at LEAST, a Catholic preferably, or at least Orthodox
  • A weekly churchgoer who makes Mass/service a priority
  • Anti-abortion. This is the mother of all dealbreakers. I don’t consider people who are pro-murder.
  • Somebody who doesn’t froth at the mouth when they hear the word “Trump”
  • Somebody who takes their faith seriously, AKA, is not a leftist. Nobody who wants to live the faith as actually commanded by God can be a leftist.
  • Is not a land whale.
  • If a Protestant, is not opposed to living a Catholic centered lifestyle, e.g. the children are raised Catholic, no contraception.
  • A marital debit is acknowledged. Verbally acknowledges that she would have sex with me on a frequent basis and when asked.
  • No kids, widow or no
  • Does not self identify as feminist

When push comes to shove I’d probably be stricter than this and might be missing something, so if you find yourself gasping at some obvious dealbreaker I missed, it probably is a dealbreaker and I forgot to mention it.

Dalrock has pointed out that a little feminism in a young women is basically impossible to avoid. What’s important is how she reacts to the more conservative Christian ideals. Does she recoil in disgust, or is she willing to hear you out and attempt to come to terms with your beliefs? As a bonus this will tell you how willing she would be to listen to you overall.

Here’s the thing: For the AVERAGE Christian, most of what I said should probably have you saying “duh”. If you have some problem with something I wrote: Take a good long look at the compromises you are willing to make to yourself and God.

And remember – these are the broad things, stuff that I would try and figure out at least by the first date, or bare minimum in the first 3. Why not just “a virgin”, flat out? Because it’s an unusually personal question to ask within the first couple of dates. Rest assured that if I learn my date is not a virgin, that would be grounds for out immediately.

Again, you are probably looking at some of what I wrote – living situation, debt, education – as red flags. I’m not saying that stuff isn’t important, I’m saying it wouldn’t disqualify a get-to-know-you date.

Okay. Long prelude. So why did I write all of this?

Because women – Christian and otherwise – are lying to themselves.

There are good Christian gentlemen – men, with an e, as in there are multiple men out there – who are perfectly willing to date and marry good Christian women. You are lying if you are saying these people are not around or don’t exist or you’re only finding men who try to “bait and switch” you. Lying to yourself perhaps, but lying.

Be honest: What you really men is that there are no good Christian men out there who you actually find attractive enough to consider dating. 

The dating system is ahistorical. It’s what we have, but you should not assume its rules in advance. Men approaching first is not the “traditional” way to go! It’s the way the current dating system assumes is traditional. If there are shy, quiet men who nevertheless go to Church every day, absolutely nothing stops, or should stop, Christian women from approaching them first. No rule is being broken and nothing bad is inherently baked into this approach.

I know what you want to say. “What sort of man is too afraid to approach a woman? Are they the sort of man who would make a good husband? Why are you trying to push the onus off of you/make excuses?”

Stop, woman. Stop doing that and think for a moment about what you just said. You, hypothetical woman, just proved my point. You are willing to leave potentially God-fearing, Churchgoing Christian men behind because of personal hangups and assumptions you have made, assumptions that may or may not be true, that you can’t know aren’t true, because you are actively making the choice not to try.

“But men should still have enough courage and self esteem too – ”

Stop. We are discussing you, not men. Stop blaming men for your issues. If you cannot find good Christian men, then you yourself have hangups you need to deeply consider. Let the men worry about their issues. They are not relevant to what you should be doing.

Think about what my criteria actually boils down to. Essentially, I would be willing to date – not marry, but potentially vet further to see if a woman would make a good match for marriage, which is all that dating is should be – a young woman who takes reasonably good care of her body and goes to Church weekly, to the point that she appears to be taking her faith seriously. I’d go on a couple of dates if you proved that you really are serious about your faith and don’t have deepseated, unresolved personal issues. That’s really it.

If your criteria is narrower than that, that is actually fine! Just stop whining. The good men don’t want to hear it.

A public service announcement from Malcolm the Cynic.

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21 Responses to Setting Aside the Blinders

  1. James Pyles says:

    I always get in trouble on my religious blog when I say that conservatism and religious fidelity tend to go hand in hand (more or less).

    Neither my wife or I were religious when we married. I knew she was Jewish, but we were both secular. Over time, we’ve acquired a faith, though not the same one, with her having become more religiously Jewish and my trajectory leading toward being a Christian, albeit a rather unusual one, since I study the Jewish texts and view Jesus as the Jewish Messiah.

    If we had met when we were both people of faith, I don’t think we would ever have gotten married.

    I don’t have a lot of experience with Christian men who are having difficulty meeting acceptable women (such as you describe above) but I have encountered a few. All but one have met and married their “soulmate,” though I don’t believe the path to encountering them was the same.

    I know of only one older (late 20s) Christian/Catholic woman who is still a virgin, and only because she followed my religious blog and I had a look at hers. She’s an actress and model based in New York and is quite attractive. She’s been on dates, but the men she’s mentioned so far just weren’t up to standards.

    When I was coming up, I always just assumed that you got married, had kids, and that was pretty much that. It never occurred to me that it would be hard to find a mate. Yet of my three children, only one son married, had children, and then divorced (he’s got a girlfriend now who seems quite nice). My other son doesn’t seem to date, and while my daughter has dated, so far, she hasn’t entered into a serious relationship.

    By the way, none of them is particularly religious so that’s not the issue, and I’m led to believe that in the 21st century, male/female interactive dynamics have somehow changed from when I was a young man. I’m at a loss to know why this is.

    • There are many reasons, none of them flattering for our current culture.

    • I recommend Dalrock’s blog, dalrock.wordpress.com. He does great work citing his sources when msking his points. He really dots his i’s and crosses his t’s.

    • ’m at a loss to know why this is

      Because this “joke” is literally how the world works today. Women today have the legal right to not be bothered by unattractive (to them) men.

    • Part of the difference between then and now is that kids were made aware (I think) of costs & trade offs. Nowadays men still have that lesson forced upon them by life – to the point that many are probably noticing things like the Kavanaugh hearing and realizing that dealing with women isn’t worth the cost to your future.

      Conversely it seems to me that women have been shielded from this lesson with the “have it all” mantra of feminism. I would be willing to bet that if you could fish an answer out of your daughter why she hasn’t seriously dated yet, the answer would probably be something along the lines of “there’s no rush, I’ll worry about it later.” One can worry about it later, but there’s a trade off. Later runs into a limited fertility window and an eventual decrease in her selection of men. Plus it gives more women the chance to snag her Prince Charming.

      I am curious if she’s even remotely aware of any of this or has given it any thought.

  2. Not bad.

    I’d say if you want to gauge how picky you are, then you need to calculate out how many single girls you know, then calculate of that number how many meet your criteria for a date. If the difference between the two numbers is too low, then you might be too picky. If the first number is way too low (like you know… 1) then before you worry about a list, you need to work on increasing that number. 😉 Of course I’ll admit that one problem today is that it’s not often clear or not if women are single (which I admit is a big problem) so if you have any in that criteria, mark them as 0.5 in your calcs.

    I’d also recommend rank-ordering them. Like what would be your requirements to go on a first date. Feminist abortion fan? Sure, you know the relationship will be doomed even if you somehow got married, so of course you won’t waste your time. Other than that…? Weigh it out.

    Sure a hardcore new atheist you shouldn’t waste your time, but an agnostic? Or someone that at least takes religion seriously? Maybe worth 1 date. A christian? Now you got someone worth 2 dates. Protestant who doesn’t mind Catholics or Orthodox? Definitely 3 dates there. Catholic or Orthodox? Ah now you’re getting into a month long relationship. etc

    Because there’s 2 things to note: 1) there’s a large spectrum when it comes to people and if you get too focused on how they will fail you, you might miss how they’ll help your life. 2) people also change over time. Just because someone is one way now doesn’t mean that’s how they’ll be forever (if that wasn’t the case then Christianity is pointless). No, this does NOT mean you want to date someone hoping you can change them. What I’m saying is figure out how to tell if someone is at least pointed in the right direction. Sure that one girl may be too big for you now, but is she going to the gym? Well by the time she slims up enough to meet your standard, someone else has already gotten her. And hey, if it doesn’t work out, maybe you know a friend who’s single she would be perfect for. (yes I have gotten a few buddies hitched)

    And yes, all of this applies double to most gals and I’ve even told a few if they ever listened to me.

    • Oh duh! I totally forgot the most obvious points of all! D’oh.

      Forgotten obvious thing ONE: Part of the thing with the list is how exactly are you going to know all of these factors before the first date? NSA level surveillance? One of the ideas of dating is to figure out the things on your list. But sitting there like a job interview and grilling your date over the items on the list is… not going to work out for you, even if she matches all of the above. So yeah, rank-order the list so you can work out what you need answers to over the effort. Assume you’ll only be able to acquire 1 factor (any additional ones are a bonus) from the list per date then suss out the answer to it without your date ever realizing your doing it and assume that this will take the entire date for you to do it right. (Yes the girl is DEFINITELY doing this to you too and they are a lot more practiced at being subtle – and leaping to conclusions so be ready.)

      Forgotten obvious thing TWO: It’s probably assumed, but if you’re going to be anal with this kind of thing then you should list it as well – but factor number 1 always has to be: she’s interested in you. That’s the other reason to sort them. You may find a woman who meets all criteria 100%, and she may not care one whit about you. Meanwhile you may run into a girl or two who kind of digs you (maybe even has a full-borne crush) but doesn’t check all the boxes. Hence why you rank the requirements by flexibility. If she hits what you’re least flexible on while doesn’t quite meet those more flexible requirements? Just give it a shot, man.

      Part of this is also data gathering. If the girls you seem to be attracting have a consistent pattern of failing your requirements, then you’ll have to make a choice. Either you’ll have to drop the requirement and settle for what you can get, or you’ll have to figure out what it is about you that is causing this pattern and work to change it. (and this paragraph definitely goes triple for girls)

    • Well, I’ll put it to you this way:

      I’m an introvert. But of the Christian women I have talked to who are interested in dating, all of them are far pickier than me.

      Some of them ended up with men who did not check all of those boxes anyhow…because they were attracted to those men.

      But yes, as you correctly pointed out, obviously nobody should be reading this stuff out in list form, and criteria does chsnge depending on circumstance.

      That said, take my comment on virginity. Sound too stringent? Maybe.

      Now look at the statistics between couples who married while virgin vs. otherwise. Maybe it’s too important NOTto consider it, at the very least.

      • As an introvert myself I totally feel ya, dude and you’re definitely right – they’re too picky – trust me, I know. 😉 I know so much better than you realize.

        I think of it like a game (because it is). Sometimes in say… a card game (like Magic), there may be an optimum situation to play a card – and if you wait all day for that, you’ll probably lose. Sometimes you have to use the cards in less optimal situations if you’re going to win.

        So take the example you brought up. Virgin. Ideal? Absolutely, if you have a choice, pick the virgin. The key word there though, is choice. So, step one: how are you even going to know? It’s probably going to be the third or fourth date before you can even get hints on this (unless it’s the first date and the woman tries to tackle you – you have solid evidence then). So if you keep avoiding that first date with any girl because you can’t determine if she’s a virgin or not? Well there’s a very high chance you’ll never find anyone. So push it down the list, make it a later date concern. (There’s obviously also the concern of weeding out liars.) Now you might say that you won’t bother with women who are obviously not virgins (town bicycle and all that) but life is complicated. What if a woman checks the rest of the list, but had been raped? Or maybe she is a widow (verify how the husband died). You really going to pass up someone that could be a great wife and mother because of that factor? You might want to join the priesthood now.

        That’s why I say order the list and calculate out flexibility. Like if Catholicism is the most important, then mark down: If other religion – must be virgin, if protestant – non virgin from circumstances, if orthodox – maybe one time allowed if the repented, if catholic – as long as sexual partners are < N. You know, just figure out what works for you. Because…

        Some of them ended up with men who did not check all of those boxes anyhow…because they were attracted to those men.

        That. The women are doing it anyway even if not consciously. “Oh I want all these things – but if he’s hot enough they’re negotiable.” (like that post you had the other day) If you’re not that hot…. *shrug*

        I know. The game really isn’t fair. It isn’t. Eventually we choose to either stop playing, or figure out the best play with what we’ve got. I ain’t gonna lie and tell you it doesn’t suck. But a good posse that can help you out makes it a little better.

      • Hey, I’m not disagreeing. Nor am I turning down dates because I don’t know (I tried to make that clear). I’m also not trying to complain about the game so much as poinying out that women complaining is annoying, because they’re not being honest with themselves.

      • lol Ah gotcha gotcha, my mistake then. Well you may be alright then, dude. 😉 Best of luck to ya – I really do mean it.

      • And yes – this is a casual list. I do have an order, but there are true non-negotiables too.

      • (Rape is I hope it goes without saying obviously not in the category of virgin I’m referring to.)

      • You know I remember a time that kind of thing really did go without saying.

        I miss those days. I really do.

  3. I was thinking about previewing all of this but I’m over the halfway mark and I think you may like this video too, Malcolm.

  4. jvangeld says:

    There was this one time I was on a short term missions trip, which had an equal male-female ratio. One of the female leaders asked someone, “Where have all of the good men gone?”

    :rimshot:

    She’s standing in a room where men have taken a week off of work to serve others and live out their faith. But she can’t find a good man.

    Anyways, that sent a tremor through the Matrix for my pre-red pill self. If she doesn’t think these objectively good men are good men, maybe she isn’t looking for a good man. Now I view, “WHATGMG?” as a shit test extraordinaire.

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