Catholic Dating Advice

My Pagan Date Treated Me Better Than my Christian Date

“This is against my better judgement,” I thought to myself…

…as I got ready for a date with a man who I would describe as the best-looking guy I have ever encountered in real life.

Clearly, this guy had looks and this suave charisma going for him (don’t those two always seem to go hand-in-hand?), but I knew they were coming at a cost. Though Mr. Good-looking had stated moral beliefs that definitely opposed my own, I was too excited to go on a date with someone I actually liked to think thoroughly through the situation.

The date was awesome, and before I knew it the night was coming to a close. I found myself on his rooftop, with my second (or was it my third?) drink in hand, sitting way closer to him than I would have had anyone else been around.

I was so disenchanted with “good men” of upright moral standing. So I started dating the opposite type.

As a girl of strong-moral character and conviction, I was aghast at myself for being in that situation to begin with.

Strong moral character. You don’t say. I wonder what happened next?

It was in the midst of that compromising setting that I was completely floored by the reverence that this guy showed for me.

Though he could have easily attempted to make the night go a very different way, this guy (the pagan one, remember?) gave me a kiss on the forehead, told me that he respected me, and proceeded to get me home at a decent hour in one piece. Never had I ever been treated that well before by any guy, Christian or not. It’s true that when a man loves a woman, he has a profound sense of responsibility for her. He seeks what is best for her rather than his own interests. Now I’m not saying this guy loved me after one date, but did his actions not just express that genuine love and respect?

Indeed. Here we have a half drunk woman getting increasingly close to a man she’s alone with and insanely attracted to, but if you do anything but kiss her on the forehead and send her home you’re just not showing her that genuine love and respect.

It is truly shameful that there are no good Christian men out there who won’t pursue sex with women who are throwing themselves at them in compromising situations. Shameful, I say.

So what is the lesson here?

Well:

I’ve had my fair share of doubts from past dating relationships, but this experience has taught me that good men will rise to the standard that women set for them. Rather than categorizing men based off of their stated religious beliefs, be open to encountering their goodness; you may find it in the most unlikely of places.

That’s right men, rise to her standard. If only we had the standards of a Church girl getting half drunk on a date with a Pagan, the world would be a better place.

Where have all the good men gone, again?

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25 Responses to Catholic Dating Advice

  1. James Pyles says:

    I don’t know why this is limited to Catholic dating except for the fact that it’s your personal perspective. I’ve been married for over 35 years, so thankfully, dating in the manner you describe hasn’t been on my radar in quite some time. That said, I didn’t become religious until about 25 years ago, so I was quite secular during my “dating life,” though I don’t believe I ever “took advantage” of drunken women (or dated any who became intoxicated and then threw themselves at me). Like it or not, some Christian men do not behave in accordance with their stated morals and values, while some atheists men do behave with morality and honor. Consider Romans 2:14.

  2. Aethelfrith says:

    Where have all the good men gone, again?

    On Dalrock, complaining about the lack of good women.

  3. Elspeth says:

    I have never been drunk or done anything quite like what this woman described, but my pre-marriage experience mirrored hers. Christian men were pushy and unwilling to respect sexual boundaries. it was very disheartening to realize that giving a shot to young men from my church wasn’t any kind of a safeguard against having to swat hands and constantly say “no”.

    • Sure, but then, why am I believing this woman again? She aggressively pursues pagans while half drunk then blames Christians for not treating her like a daughter of the queen.

      • Elspeth says:

        “Pagans” plural? Eh, using poor judgment and having weakness where one guy hardly means she is aggressively pursuing pagans as a rule. She definitely needs to do some serious praying, soul searching, and evaluating why she made that choice. And be thankful that he was a good guy despite his lack of religion. She might be lying, I have no way to know.

        What I do know is that it is true that you can’t assume men who profess Christianity are necessarily more respectful of appropriate boundaries. And that some unbelieving men -when they note that a woman is of a conservative or religious bent- will resist taking advantage of her because they sense (rightly or wrongly) that she is “better than that”.

      • Surely. But how would it be taking advantage of somebody sending such diamond-crystal-clear signals? How is what the Pagan did any more gentlemanly?

        This woman doesn’t even consider how her own behavior influences the issue while describing that one time she got drunk, alone, and coming on aggressively stronger to a Pagan.

        Imagine this is with a Christian guy who sleeps with her after she gets good and drunk. Is it his fault for not being gentlemanly? Even if he is at fault, is that who she should be reaching out to in her article?

        How is this article a “man up” article, when it’s all about a woman’s sins?

      • Mike T says:

        Eh, using poor judgment and having weakness where one guy hardly means she is aggressively pursuing pagans as a rule.

        Sometimes simple open-mindedness is harder to deal with than aggressive interest. She dates a few nice pagans and next thing she knows she’s marrying a handsome and suave one. Then she’s lamenting that her kids want nothing to do with her faith and follow their father’s view. Like Christian women who marry Muslim men as well.

        Part of the imprudence for a woman is that children tend to follow their father’s example more than their mother’s on these issues. I even see it in my family where part of my extended family fell apart because the matriarch was devout and the patriarch couldn’t care less.

  4. Elspeth says:

    She was wrong. She sinned. You get no argument from me on that. She should consider herself very fortunate that this man, religious or not, was a decent guy. He probably knew she was a practicing Catholic before they ever went out and so for her sake did the right thing. She is after all the weaker vessel. He demonstrated strength.

    Should it really be problematic or a stretch to say that a Christian man should show more restraint and piety than an unbeliever? You may not like the woman who said it, and I can certainly see why, but it’s still true.

    That was my takeaway, anyway. It resonated enough with me to induce me to comment because I had that experience, the one of Christian men not showing any more sexual restraint than an unbeliever.

    • I care that she used that incident to make that point.

    • That was my takeaway, anyway. It resonated enough with me to induce me to comment because I had that experience, the one of Christian men not showing any more sexual restraint than an unbeliever.

      I wonder how much of that is memory bias…

      Now if you had very dates and can recite their names by memory – personal question withdrawn. But I could see it easily for women that a fairly boring, unexciting date with a Christian guy who behaves perfectly well is soon forgotten. Meanwhile a date with a Christian guy where the guy behaves badly would then stick in the memory because of the incongruity – just as the incongruity of a pagan man behaving stuck out in the author’s memory.

      After all, I know of several guys which were always perfect gentlemen, never heard a bad word about them (and I’m not counting myself).

  5. Patrick says:

    Most Christian women are feminists who believe that really cultivating a submissive heart is somewhere between laughable and appalling. Most Christian men are the complementary image of that, so the situation makes sense. I wonder if she thinks men should take her advice vis a vis Christian women, though. There’s a lot of non Christian women who are feminine and serious about submissiveness.

  6. Chad says:

    Of course she’s going to say this. She got her sense of adventure from sin, it got her all hot and bothered, she was lucky enough to find that he had some natural virtue.

    However, she should be using it as an argument for overseeing daughters, for not being willing to let women date non believers where a simple heightened excitement level impairs their judgements, etc.

    Instead, the hamsters run the marathon and more are led afoul of real morality and the foundation for a good marriage

  7. Cane Caldo says:

    I think I can simplify this.

    She says the Christian men she chooses are pushy, but the great-looking men who are not Christians aren’t pushy. That’s because one can’t be “pushed” by someone to whom you yield. She is turned on by the hot guy. With him she takes action to lower her inhibitions and put herself in a compromising situation. Conversely, it sounds like she is not attracted to the Christian men she dates, so any physical effort by them is going to be deemed pushy, or handsy. When she says “My pagan date treated me better than my Christian date” what she means is that she wanted to fuck the pagan, and does not want to fuck the Christian.

    Said another way: You can’t rape the willing. Her problem is with herself, not her Christian dates.

    • The story is something of a Rorscach test, but here is the thing – we really only know one thing for sure: If this woman was a Catholic her behavior was very bad.

      So I think the real issue isn’t the precise way she is clearly lying to herself, so much as the fact that she wrote this story out with the stated intention of chastising men for, ironically, not living up to her standards!

    • Everybody makes mistakes, but if this was really a one off error in judgment as opposed to a true flaw in her character the article is all about how she let her sinful urges dictate her actions and was very lucky that the Pagan she went out with had enough natural virtue not to try and take advantage of her.

  8. The girl knocked back a couple of drinks to throw herself at the guy, who was not virtuous, but merely uninterested in what she was attempting to offer. Forehead kiss is what guys do out of pity. Women tend to do the very quick cheek kiss. To save her ego and perhaps meet a deadline as well, the girl told herself a story that made her feel better but which doesn’t match up that well with what she describes happening. Men aren’t always interested in women-generic. She was the one who thought he was incredibly attractive, and nothing she describes indicates he thought she was even attractive. Very attractive men (and women, but not relevant to this particular situation) can be gracious with people they aren’t attracted to and spend time with them, but it’s not a sign of virtue as the authoress is attempting to frame it.

    “Pagans” sometimes tell each other to tell Christians (“religious types”) that they respect their beliefs/them as a person when it gets to the end of the date and the Christian appears to be pushing for more. If the pagan is also attracted, well, they feel they’ve done their part and made a reasonable concession if things then go further. If not, it’s a lot easier to bail and the Christian/religious type is happy (this article writer illustrating the latter example).

    • Elspeth says:

      I thought about that briefly but then wondered why he would go out with her if he didn’t find her attractive. It’s not a behavior I associate with non religious, attractive men.

  9. Elspeth says:

    The gay thing never occurred to me either. As I said up thread I -mistakenly- filtered the narrative through the prism of my prior experiences.

  10. Crude says:

    >I am not here to advocate for lowering your standards. Quite the opposite. Hold them high! How terrible to be in a relationship that only exists because you compromised and settled.

    Which is why men have every right to look for debt-free virgins without tattoos.

    I’m sure she’d agree.

  11. Il Deplorevolissimo says:

    Since Zippy’s blog is now sadly defunct, thought I’d share this. According to many of the “pro-lifers” that Zippy called out, she shouldn’t be punished. Because reasons.

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