“is that you’re comparing what the government is forcing children to do to what their own families are forcing them to do.”
Wrong. The government is forcing education on children. Parents can choose how that education is delivered. But the parent can’t opt to not educate the child at all. So the only difference between Mom and the school is delivery. Both are forcing government mandated instruction on the child.
For a smart guy like ed, I find a comment like this astonishing to the point of being kind of shocked he said it.
Sure, there is no difference between a mother choosing how to teach her children, where to teach her children, what order her children will learn (yes, that can be chosen, at least to a certain degree), and who her children will specifically interact with, then a government mandated school. Nope. Basically just delivery that’s the difference.
“I’m saying “cheaters not only are people we should be sympathetic to, but in fact are correct in a fundamental way we don’t like to admit”.
Yeah, but you don’t want to think of yourself as some cool leftist black beret wearing protester, some ultra-cool hipster who’s got it all figured out. No, you just want to get it out there, cuz boyo, no one has thought before you that cheating is admirable.
- I didn’t say that nobody has thought of this before. Quite the contrary. I’m building off of other people I’ve read, specifically Joseph Moore of Yard Sale of the Mind.
- I didn’t say I thought cheating was “admirable”. I don’t think they should be in that situation at all.
This is a situation I ran into a lot when I was starting to reject right liberalism: Halfway rejectors.
Ed has an idea in mind of how people like me think, and he’s projecting those assumptions here. This is because he’s trapped in a mindset: School has to be like this.
I know he is, because he just put a post up on how the public school system is totally the way to go.
I don’t think that in the slightest. In fact, I reject it vehemently.
Here’s the thing. There’s a certain type of person who cheats just because they’re not interested in hard work. This is bad for a lot of reasons, and this person needs more fundamental help then “Hey, we need to stop him from cheating”.
Then there are the people – people like my friends, who are now engineers and government level Cybersecurity programmers, among other things – who cheat in certain classes because they don’t care about them. And yet, here we are, forcing them to learn those things. Things they’re not necessarily ready for, or that frankly they’re too ready for and know they can do the work, so don’t want to jump through the hoops (I had a friend exactly like this in a Web Design course. He found the coursework preposterous, cheated on all of it, then when it was time to actually design websites he was the best in the class. But can’t go without that elective!).
You can call this lazy if you want to. I call it real life – we do our jobs as best we can, we go home and learn how to do the things that we want to do, and our jobs fund our hobbies. You can live a fine life this way.
And I call it childhood when our parents decide the best way for us to live our lives.
But wait! We still need to follow the government’s education program!
And that’s exactly my point. This is a bad thing.
School is a preposterous artificial environment. It makes no sense. There is almost nothing in the real world school is comparable to. I don’t admire cheaters, but frankly, for the worst ones, cheating is just a symptom of a larger problem, and for the folks like my friends and I, or those cheaters Ed mentions who just want that A, it’s increasingly unclear why we’re making them do this stuff at all.
That’s not to say that lying is the right way to go. But it is saying we have more fundamental problems here that we need to address, mostly by tearing the entire system down and replacing it with something new entirely.