Comic-Con Trailer Thoughts

Luke Cage: Looks excellent. I’m still suspicious that it’s going to get the SJW treatment (the temptation to go that route with a black superhero on a network that not nearly as many people care about has to be strong), but the trailers look good enough that I’m optimistic anyway.

Excitement Level: 7.5 of 10

The Defenders: That doesn’t even count as a trailer. It tells me nothing.

Excitement Level: ????? of 10

Wonder Woman: Sort of interesting, and Gal Godot is PERFECT for the role, but it looks like a lot of disjointed images all mashed together into what’s otherwise a typical humorless DC origin story. I do like Chris Pine, though, so there’s that.

Excitement Level: 4.5 of 10

Justice League: Now THIS was a much better trailer. It gave me an idea of the story, it gave me an idea of the characters involved, some of what I saw was actually entertaining…good stuff. Of course, the plot also looks almost exactly the same as “The Avengers”, and a movie with an ensemble cast that big is really, really hard to pull off. Not everyone is Joss Whedon, and this movie doesn’t look as good as “The Avengers” anyway. Still, I’m cautiously optimistic.

Excitement Level: 6 of 10

Other Announcements: They’re going to have a season three of “Daredevil”!

Excitement Level: Eleventy-billion out of 10

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25 Responses to Comic-Con Trailer Thoughts

  1. Jakeithus says:

    I’m so out of the loop on the Marvel Netflix series right now I haven’t bothered to check the new series trailers. I’ll have to get around to that eventually.

    Unsurprisingly for me I bought into the hype with the DC trailers however. I agree Justice League was better than WW, but I liked them both. Justice League was practically devoid of action sequences and pretty different than their typical trailers, which says to me they’re responding to some of their critics. Hopefully the finished product is more Avengers than Avengers 2.

    I agree the Wonder Woman trailer was disjointed, I’m still fairly in the dark about where that movie is going to go based on what I’ve seen so far. Hopefully more Greek mythology however, as in my opinion it’s the most interesting part of her character. Wonder Woman was perhaps my favourite part of BvS though, so I’m excited to see her in more action which I thought did look good in the trailer.

    Plus; that music. Using the best White Stripes song is a good way to win me over, and Wonder Woman’s theme is the best since Bale’s Batman theme.

  2. James says:

    The original concept of “Luke Cage: Hero for Hire” was interesting in the early 1970s. An escaped convicted, falsely imprisoned for a crime he didn’t commit, accidently acquiring superpowers in a failed experiment, returns to New York under an assumed identity to clear his name. But he needs money, so he hires out his services, sort of like a superpowered private detective…an unlicensed one. It would be interesting to see how Netflix handles it, but since I don’t have that service, I suppose I’ll never know. Heard Daredevil was good.

  3. Cane Caldo says:

    Wonder Woman is to Captain America what the new Ghostbusters is to the original. She’s fighting Germans. She’s got an opposite-sexed escort. She’s even got a shield of strange metal. She does add some snappy one-liners about secretaries being slaves. That’s different.

    So it’s a rip-off with Feminist quips. Pass.

    • Jakeithus says:

      It’s a little unfair to dismiss it as a ripoff considering both characters have been around since 1941 and the Wonder Woman movie is simply sticking to the character that has been around since that time. (Especially given until the recent Marvel films it’s arguable WW was the more iconic character than Captain America)

      Hopefully it’s not too infected by modern feminism however, that’s a very real concern given the current zeitgeist.

    • I didn’t mention it, but like with Luke Cage one of the reasons I’m not too optimistic is because of the potential for it to be SJW-ized.

  4. Cane Caldo says:

    @Jakeithus

    I never underestimate a fanboy’s ability to rationalize his worship, so your comment doesn’t surprise me. The SJWs understand your plight, and use it against you. They only care about the history of things so as to turn them into psychological weapons in their war against truth. Wake up.

    • Jakeithus says:

      @Cane

      Im afraid Im not understanding the plight you see me in or what I need to wake up from.

      Far from being a Wonder Woman fan boy, I just dislike lazy critiques. And while I won’t argue with you that “feminist Captain America ripoff” helps describe her origins, the current relationship between the 2 characters has eclipsed that given the 75 years of history. It’s funny as well to appear so concerned with rooting out feminist influences yet to be fine with Captain America and girrrrl powerific, modern feminist icon Peggy Carter.

      Maybe the movie is a feminist mess, I need to see more than the trailer to make that call. The one nice thing about Wonder Woman at least is there’s an explanation as to why this woman can fight better than most guys, and the character has always been more than just a man with boobs.

      • Jake,

        I get what you mean, but I highly doubt Cane has no issue with Peggy Carter.

      • Jakeithus says:

        I expect that’s the case as well, but it speaks to the current climate when even the “gold standard” contains an overtly feminist message. The feminist quip at the end was par for the course, and that being the case it’s hasty to declare it the next Ghostbusters; that might still end up being the case however.

        Although to echo a commentator on John Clarke Wright’s, given the potential in the movie for the trailer to contain as little overtly PC/feminist material as it did could be seen as a good sign.

  5. Cane Caldo says:

    @Jakeithus

    1. Malcolm is correct on the worthless Peggy.

    2. I’m not a fanboy of any comic book heroes.

    3. The plight you are in is that you are duped into believing that these movies are foremost attempts at art instead of propaganda vehicles they actually are. They mean to subvert and you are busy close-reading the history.

    TL; DR version: You think you’re so smart. They’re counting on that.

    • Jakeithus says:

      I’m not sure where you got the idea that I’m not well aware of the propaganda infecting popular storytelling, especially what’s coming out of Hollywood these days. It’s not like I’ve even been jumping to the defense of the trailer or the movie, I simply found the critique simplistic and unfair. Wonder Woman is bad because feminism, yet Captain America good despite its own feminism. For someone smart enough to see what’s really going on, there seemed to be a lack of thought process behind it.

      I need to see more before determining the type and quality of propaganda present in the movie, and I think you do as well.

      • But Captain America has a feminist character in it. Wonder Woman is feminist to its core.

        It’s the difference between Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Firefly.

      • Jakeithus says:

        I don’t know what is meant by feminist to the core however. Wonder Woman being able to fight like she does as a super powered demigod seems less feminist to the core than say a Black Widow. I bet Steve Trevor is more capable in Wonder Woman than all of the males in the Force Awakens, does that make it more of less feminist than that story?

        Is WW a female who acts somewhat like a female or is she just a man with tits? Is the story simply nothing more than women good, men bad or does it have more nuance than that? In my opinion there is more that needs to be known than what a trailer can tell.

      • Look up the origin of Wonder Woman to see what I mean. This is pretty undeniable. Wonder Woman was created explicitly as feminist propaganda by a polyamorous man.

      • Jakeithus says:

        Again, I won’t disagree with you there, and it’s a good reason why the movie might turn out to be a feminist mess. But from what I’ve seen so far that is not guaranteed, as its feminism seems no more pronounced than your typical Hollywood fare in 2016.

        Given how things have gone for them so far, my guess is WB would want to avoid turning WW into a Ghostbusters level battle in the culture war considering how that turned out.

      • So the difference between Wonder Woman and Captain America:

        Feminism is central to Wonder Woman’s character and mythos. It is literally inseparable from the character – you’d be removing something fundamental from Wonder Woman if you took out the feminism.

        Feminism might sometimes APPEAR in Captain America, but it is not fundamental to it; take out the feminism, and you can still make an excellent Captain America film. One of the only minor flaws of Civil War was Sharon Carter engaging briefly in hand to hand combat with trained fighting men and winning.

        You could have taken that out and still had an excellent film, though, because it was not central to the Captain America mythos.

        Hence the difference between Buffy and Firefly. Buffy is feminist propaganda. I’m not insulting it. Whedon has flat-out said it many times. It’s the premise of the show. You can’t take out the feminism and still have Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

        Firefly is a story about what happened to the folks who lost the Civil War, except set in space. The world of Firefly has feminism, but unlike Buffy, it isn’t central to the premise; you could take it out and still have great Firefly stories, and indeed, the worst moments of the show tend to be when the hamfisted feminism is emphasized. There is a fundamental difference in premise.

        I very much sympathize with you; this took me a long time to grasp myself, that a lot of things I even like and enjoy also happen to be feminist and liberal propaganda (like all of Star Trek, and Jessica Jones, and even The Office). This doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t enjoy those things, but you need to be aware that what you’re watching isn’t just pure entertainment. It’s also propaganda intended to push feminism on you.

      • Jakeithus says:

        I agree with you, and understand the point you’re making. I just think in this particular case it’s hasty to dismiss WW for its feminist propaganda based on a single trailer, when the feminist propaganda literally infects almost everything Hollywood puts out these days.

        My moderate experience with WW in comics has been fairly benign, it’s been far less overtly socially leftist than a number of other comic book characters I can think of. It’s possible to tell good WW stories without too much overt feminism creeping in; all my point is is that it’s too early to tell if that is the case based on the trailer alone. Now maybe the implicit feminism in the character disqualifies the movie for certain people, I just personally can’t grasp that mindset.

  6. There’s a reason Wonder Woman, modern feminist-era Jessica Jones, modern feminist-era Peggy Carter, and Supergirl were all created by men: Because men like watching people with tits kick ass.

  7. Cane Caldo says:

    @Jakeithus

    Again, being a fanboy of anything leaves one open to all sorts of attacks and encourages one to make any sort of rationalization. His problem isn’t a lack of brains, but unbalanced desires. Because while trying to see a thing does not guarantee one will, avoiding sight of a thing is almost a sure thing.

    Although to echo a commentator on John Clarke Wright’s, given the potential in the movie for the trailer to contain as little overtly PC/feminist material as it did could be seen as a good sign.

    Although to echo a commentator on John Clarke Wright’s, given the potential in the wine for the taste-test to contain as little poison as it did could be seen as a good sign.

    Wonder Woman is bad because feminism, yet Captain America good despite its own feminism. For someone smart enough to see what’s really going on, there seemed to be a lack of thought process behind it.

    You have erroneously inferred that I think CA is good. I made a comparison is not an endorsement; though an ass-kicking man makes some sense while an ass-kicking woman does not. Look elsewhere for the lack of thought process you are detecting.

    Is WW a female who acts somewhat like a female or is she just a man with tits? Is the story simply nothing more than women good, men bad or does it have more nuance than that? In my opinion there is more that needs to be known than what a trailer can tell.

    Who cares? The trailer has overtly feminist themes and even–in case we missed the fact that it’s a woman kicking male soldier’s asses, they script WW to call the Pine’s secretary a slave after she describes herself as a kind of helpmeet.

    There’s another factor here, much larger, which is obvious to me but has escaped you: This movie isn’t made for Jakeithus’ private fantasies of comics brought to life. Other people are going to see WW. Do you suppose that you can sanitize their experience with your insights and nuance?

    @MtC

    There’s a reason Wonder Woman, modern feminist-era Jessica Jones, modern feminist-era Peggy Carter, and Supergirl were all created by men: Because men like watching people with tits kick ass.

    Men like watching tits, period. The ass-kicking is fairly irrelevant in regards to the boobs. Though, you may be right about a certain kind of man who has been stunted by too much video games, comics, and other forms of distracting entertainment, but too little real and positive interaction with live people.

    • I don’t think so; it goes further back into comic books and even western movies.

      Somebody – maybe Gavin Mcinness – wrote a terrific article on this. I tried to find it with no luck. When I do I’ll post it.

      Anyway, I really do sympathize a lot with Jake, because the tendency to rationalize is really strong. I’ve absolutely done it. But we can’t.

      • Jake,

        For what it’s worth, I talk back and forth with Cane a long time, and credit him with helping me open my eyes to this sort of thing. Cane actually DOES watch a lot of popular media, or at least a good amount of it. He just tries to be aware of the creeping feminism in it.

        Cane isn’t a fan of Captain America himself, but – he’d have to confirm this himself, of course – I’d imagine that for him it would be very different going to see a Captain America movie and noting, so we’re not fooled, that there’s feminism IN it and seeing Wonder Woman, which is an objectively, openly feminist work. Ditto Jessica Jones.

        I did praise Jessica Jones in the past as a well-written work, but in retrospect my praise at the very least went too far. I was wrong; it was definitely very SJW. I can enjoy the show for its storytelling merits but even if I do I cannot – cannot ever – lose sight of the fact that its purpose, its existence, is to be a piece of feminist propaganda and that the world would be better if it didn’t exist.

    • Jakeithus says:

      Again, being a fanboy of anything leaves one open to all sorts of attacks and encourages one to make any sort of rationalization. His problem isn’t a lack of brains, but unbalanced desires. Because while trying to see a thing does not guarantee one will, avoiding sight of a thing is almost a sure thing.

      I see it now, It’s obviously the solution is to never become a fan of anything, as that’s the only way to stay critical enough to escape the creeping spectre of feminism.

      Who cares? The trailer has overtly feminist themes and even–in case we missed the fact that it’s a woman kicking male soldier’s asses, they script WW to call the Pine’s secretary a slave after she describes herself as a kind of helpmeet.

      There’s another factor here, much larger, which is obvious to me but has escaped you: This movie isn’t made for Jakeithus’ private fantasies of comics brought to life. Other people are going to see WW. Do you suppose that you can sanitize their experience with your insights and nuance?

      It’s obvious that I care; my personal opinion and criticism of a work depends on more than the amount of feminism it contains. I suppose the nice part about your perspective is that you never have to even watch most popular entertainment since apparently it can all be dismissed at the earliest sign of objectionable content.

      I never seek to sanitize other’s experiences, that’s a position of power I have absolutely no desire to occupy. The only possible exception might be my own children, but sanitize is not thenough descriptor I would use.

      Cane, to be quite honest I took more offense at your “Captain America ripoff” comment than the fact you pointed out there is overt feminism in the trailer. “Captain America on feminism” might have been a good descriptor of the character once, but after 75 years I maintain that is no longer the case (although the feminism is still there, the same as most comic books these days). You are free to dismiss the movie because of its overt feminism, I can imagine it’s a rather small pool of popular media you can enjoy, but that is your right.

      Malcolm, you typically give thoughtful criticism of popular works, so I find it odd for you to be defending “Captain America plus feminism” as a fair critique. Is Jessica Jones “Superman ripoff plus feminism plus private eye = pass” a fair criticism of that show? Do you think Black Panther will boil down to “Batman ripoff plus #blacklivesmatter”? I’m not trying to rationalize away the feminism present in the Wonder Woman mythos, however until I see more I can’t say to what extent it is harmful to the story or harmful to the cultural landscape compared to the feminism already permeating Marvel, Star Wars, etc.

      • (As for Black Panther, it is very possible it will be SJW-infested. Ditto Luke Cage. But from my reading neither of them SEEMS to be inherently SJW in conception so I’m at the very least willing to give them more of a shot.)

  8. Cane Caldo says:

    @MtC

    I don’t think so; it goes further back into comic books and even western movies.

    I can see that. Westerns have fanboys, too, and by “distracting entertainment” I meant a much broader category than just current forms of high-geekdom. Westerns would fit, for example. So would MMA and wrestling and pro sports and racing and “foodie-ism” and lots of other things which aren’t hardcore geek.

    Anyway, I really do sympathize a lot with Jake, because the tendency to rationalize is really strong. I’ve absolutely done it. But we can’t.

    No, we can’t. This stuff has been irritating me since EverQuest came out and I found out that a good chunk of my male IT coworkers were playing female characters.

  9. Cane Caldo says:

    @Jakeithus

    Cane, to be quite honest I took more offense at your “Captain America ripoff” comment than the fact you pointed out there is overt feminism in the trailer.

    You have managed to both waffle back on the importance of the obvious and overt feminism, and miss the point of the WW movie in one sentence. Again: The filmmakers do not care about satisfying points of geek minutiae. They gave her a shield–which is not an original artifact of WW–and specifically so that modern audiences (that is: current non-geek people watching current super hero movies) will draw comparisons to CA. Let me remind you again that I’m explaining and not endorsing. In other words: Women can do it, too. It’s bullshit. One of the things woman means is weaker than men.

    I’m not trying to rationalize away the feminism present in the Wonder Woman mythos, however until I see more I can’t say to what extent it is harmful to the story or harmful to the cultural landscape compared to the feminism already permeating Marvel, Star Wars, etc.

    Because more poison is acceptable in you wine as long as it’s not in stronger concentration than what you’ve been swallowing.

    I see it now, It’s obviously the solution is to never become a fan of anything, as that’s the only way to stay critical enough to escape the creeping spectre of feminism.

    Nonsense. I am a fan of Jesus Christ, His Church, truth, justice, mercy, virtues…all sorts of things. Everything else must be subject to those.

    You’re not a fan, but a fanboy. You’re among the opiated distraction-stupored masses. You’re a dupe. Wake up.

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