Anal Vs. Bestiality

A couple of weeks ago, during a conversation with like-minded people, I casually pointed out that gay sex was no different or more moral than bestiality. The discussion was about the portrayal of homosexual relationships as acceptable in children’s TV shows. My point was that what we were actually showing children were sexual perversions presented as normal behavior. This is no different than showing a boy having a romantic relationship with his dog, which everybody would find disgusting (as they should).

Keep in mind, these people 1) Agreed with me that homosexual sex was immoral, and 2) Agreed with me that it shouldn’t be portrayed in children’s media. Yet there reaction to my comments was outrage and the predictable “See, this is why they think we’re extremists!” canard.

This surprised me because I considered it self-evident. Of course it’s no different than bestiality; the logic used is exactly the same. The whole “But pets can’t consent!” always seemed to be a really lame argument to me. Pets don’t consent to most things we do to them. We own them. I force my pet to do things all the time, as do you, as does everyone.

Perhaps the problem is that nowadays we see a lot of homosexuals around, but very few people engaging in bestiality. But this is hardly an argument. For all I know, my whole neighborhood could be made up of animal fuckers. How would I know? And, for that matter, why would I care? You guys do you. I think it’s disgusting, but if you’re not shoving it in my face it’s not my life. As long as the animal comes out unharmed, there’s nothing I can do to stop you.

What if I see homosexuals kissing? Do I stop all contact with people who I otherwise had no issues with? No, not really, but I’m also not going to pretend it’s A-okay. If asked, I’ll answer honestly, or depending on the context dodge the question. But this is the same with people who commit bestiality. Hey, if you’re otherwise somebody who I was perfectly willing to deal with previously, I have no real reason to stop talking to you, I guess. Just don’t expect me to pretend everything’s cool. And if you’re really over the top about it – just like with homosexuality, by the way – I’m most likely going to avoid you.

I think it’s a matter of social conditioning – even those of us who think homosexual sex is “bad” simply can’t conceive of it as being “as bad” as bestiality. I think this is a mistake. I think, frankly, the comparison is pretty obvious. And I was genuinely surprised about that reaction from people who otherwise agreed with me.

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12 Responses to Anal Vs. Bestiality

  1. dpmonahan says:

    If you look at it from the perspective of “disordered sex acts” then one can make a sort analogy between sodomy and bestiality, or bestiality and masturbation for that matter, understanding that analogy does not imply an equal degree of disorder.
    Where the analogy falls apart however is on the personal level: in some homosexual relationships there is the presence of disinterested friendship. Most people will reject the proposed analogy because they feel it belittles the real friendships they see.

    • Where the analogy falls apart however is on the personal level: in some homosexual relationships there is the presence of disinterested friendship.

      This is a fair point, but at the same time, I would argue that homosexual sex is harmful for both parties, and not properly the actions of one who truly loves another.

      Not that I think homosexuals are incapable of loving each other, but that the disordered sex act is a perverted, harmful expression of that love. Like the mother in “The Great Divorce” who wants to drag her son out of Heaven to be with her if necessary, real love avoids harm; and homosexual sex is harmful.

      • dpmonahan says:

        I think you are mostly correct, but Lewis himself would also argue that there is something good (and something evil) contained in all human loves, and that there is a dynamic tension implicit in love – one is either growing towards divine charity or towards selfishness.
        That is how I tend to see gay relationships – the possibility is there for the people to be pulled in one way or another, towards true love or towards selfishness, so I personally am slow to criticize such relationships with people I know.

      • I don’t actively criticize (at least, it’s inappropriate in most situations), but I also don’t lie if asked; the true right thing to do, if one truly loves the other, is to stop any sexual relationship. But I think you agree with me there.

  2. Crude says:

    Perhaps the problem is that nowadays we see a lot of homosexuals around, but very few people engaging in bestiality.

    You and I visit very different websites.

    (I kid, I kid.)

    All I know is that if you compare anal sex to bestiality, a lot of people stop talking to you. They tend to act like it’s beyond the pale, but really, I think the problem is that the similarities are too strong to give much airtime to. In fact, just talking about anal sex is enough to shut down a lot of conversations. People prefer to talk about very, very vague placeholders – ‘making love’, etc.

  3. BenYachov(Jim the Scott) says:

    Technically Aquinas taught bestiality was morally worst than sodomy. The Rabbis in ancient times appear to concur. Homosexual sex acts are an attempt to ape the person to person heterosexual relationship. Having sex with animals is simply a sick form of masturbation with a living thing rather then an inanimate prop or one’s hand. So logically and qualitatively homosexuality is technically a grade above animal wrongness acts. But that is no different then saying stealing $500 is a grade less immoral than killing someone for $500.

    In the Talmud and the Mishnah anal sodomy like animal wrongness where both called “abominations”. However non-anal homosexual acts between men and or lesbian acts where not classified by the ancients as “abominations” but as “licentious” acts. This meant they did not automatically merit the death penalty before God.

    Just some historical background you might find helpful.

    >the disordered sex act is a perverted, harmful expression of that love. Like the mother in “The Great Divorce” who wants to drag her son out of Heaven to be with her…

    That is an awesome analogy.

    • Of course, Aquinas also believed consensual sodomy was worse than rape and incest as well.

      • BenYachov(Jim the Scott) says:

        >Of course, Aquinas also believed consensual sodomy was worse than rape and incest as well.

        Technically no, the act of sodomy as an act is worst than an act of illicit natural sex in any form in his view. Morally rape is two crimes illicit natural sex and violence. Consensual Sodomy is one crime.

      • I can’t contradict you.

  4. Andy says:

    Yet there reaction to my comments was outrage and the predictable “See, this is why they think we’re extremists!” canard.

    That is really interesting. As someone who thinks there is nothing morally wrong whatsoever with gay sex per se, I’m not outraged by your opinion at all and am similarly surprised that people who *agree* with you on the moral status of gay sex are outraged by the comparison.

  5. Crude says:

    Keep in mind, these people 1) Agreed with me that homosexual sex was immoral, and 2) Agreed with me that it shouldn’t be portrayed in children’s media. Yet there reaction to my comments was outrage and the predictable “See, this is why they think we’re extremists!” canard.

    Actually, to highlight this.

    I used to think like this, so I can relate somewhat. It’s a combination of frustration at thinking something that seems self-evidently reasonable to think while at the same time being hounded for thinking it. So the idea goes, ‘Well, wait, what if I make sure to really compensate for this by showing what a good person I am and distancing myself from everyone who these people say is a jerk and… (etc) maybe then they’ll like me and hear me out, or at least let me believe what I do without making me miserable?’

    Yeah. That doesn’t work. And it’s a bad way to think besides most of the time.

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