Judgybitch wrote this excellent post that essentially makes a really, really good argument that marriage is better for women than feminism is. So kudos to her. More interesting is the comments section. Zelcorpion wrote this:
We have quite a few guys in the manosphere who grew up with toxic single mothers and are having difficulties connecting with the opposite sex. They basically need some kind of therapy before even learning Game, but at least there are already some professional PUAs who specialize in that kind of long-term-self-improvement strategy. Apart from that the community offers to meet them up in their cities. At least they turn to guys who can actually help them via wisdom a la Rollo Tomassi, because going to a feminized therapist or the general media or getting useless girl-advice in the form of “Just be yourself” creates even worse mental states.
Rollo Tomassi: The man who wrote a self-help book, who is also anti-self help books. Except his own, because he’s Rollo and thus always right, unlike those other self-help books.
Do you realize how laughable it is that in an article about how much good lasting marriages do for society you’re recommending advice from pick-up artists?
There’s more. Poster caprizchka said:
I just popped in to defend Rollo Tomassi–I’m a fan even if I don’t agree with him 100%. He extends “game” to marriage and relationships as a means of curbing hypergamy (and divorce!).
Okay, I admittedly got a bit sarcastic now, though hopefully not in a nasty way:
Of course he extends “game” to marriage. Game means whatever the pick-up artists want it to mean, at any time. It’s a mysterious, amorphous concept. All we can agree upon is that every guy needs to get it.
And, of course, that the all-knowing Rollo has the answers.
Well, Zelcorpion came back, and this time out for blood:
Rollo did not come up with it by himself, he is just someone who compiles it well. There are plenty of other sources, but I consider him the best and most concise compiler of the manosphere.
Actually the PUAs did most of it. Since statistics are a major part in science – especially in behavioral psychology – then who among the men has experience with hundreds of women and dozens of relationships? Well – since that part of psychology is deliberately ignored by modern psychology for various reasons men put their combined knowledge and experiences together and manifested Game themselves. And yes – Christian men who wanted to save their marriage used wisdom by the PUAs. It is ironic, but would not be necessary if the universities wanted to look into the feminine imperative and real female behavior. (Instead they still pump hundreds of millions around the world into eye-gaze studies to find out that men look at butts and boobs and women look at eyes and lips and butts – still leaving aside the more complex female arousal scale which reacts to a multitude of factors.)
The problem is of course that it would unmask that whole gender crap & the feminine mystique (showing very ugly evolutionary characteristics of women) and ultimately it would encourage more masculine and independent behavior among men. And we certainly don’t want that among the upper circles.
Rollo’s take on Game: “A set of behavioral modifications to life skills based on psychological & sociological principles to facilitate intersexual relations.” & “One reason Game is hated by the Feminine Imperative is because it effectively returns a degree of women’s hypergamous control back to men.”
Plenty of married men and also young men looking for women have found it works. By now you can get Game wisdom also through a multitude of other sites. Denying it is about as useful as denying gravity. It is simple law in male-female behavior patterns.
What a mess. At first I linked him to Zippy, but I didn’t want to cop out, so here’s my real response:
Here’s the real problem:
1) All of the pick-up artists have different definitions of “game”. Roissy’s “16 commandments” are not compatible with a marriage in any meaningful sense of the word. They are designed to have sex with sluts. They thrive in a feminist world, in fact.
2) We are also supposed to expect to learn things about love (Rollo has a series of posts on it) from somebody who used women for years as a sexual toilet. This apparently makes him some form of expert.
2) Rollo defines “game” to mean “Things that I, Rollo, think are true”. Thus, he can claim that his game is the same as Roissy’s in one breath and then claim in another that married people can totally have game.
3) So, to define game we need to look at what all of the pick-up artists and game blogs have in common. We also need to look at what information can’t be gotten anywhere else. We actually CAN get it from the Churches, if we look. No, really. We have the INTERNET now.
What’s that? You’ll need to look around for it? I hate to break it to you, but outside of myself and maybe one friend nobody I know in person knows a single thing about game or the pick-up artists. The only time I’ve seen people link to those sorts of blogs outside of the manosphere it’s either to laugh at them, rage at them, or criticize them (the last ones tend to be the most intelligent).
So yeah, people will need to google, but that doesn’t really help game too much.
Off the top of my head, here’s one: http://deepstrength.wordpress.com
Yes, it’s Christian. And? JB quotes Proverbs. You may have to wade through the Christian stuff, but it’s no different than having to wade through the immoral stuff on the other Game blogs [Judgybitch is not a Christian site].
4) Which leads us to: What does game teach us that nothing else does or ever has, and which all of the major practitioners and teachers of the subject have in common. The answer? How to pick up sluts. Game thrives in feminism.
EVEN IF you teach people to go to Rollo and Roissy to strengthen their marriage, by trying to popularize them you are also going to popularize a lot of techniques to help men get no-strings attached sex without marriage. How many are going to listen when you say “Wait! It’ll hurt society in the long run!”
There’s more to say, though:
1) Let’s look at Rollo’s definition of game: “A set of behavioral modifications to life skills based on psychological & sociological principles to facilitate intersexual relations.” This almost literally means “Whatever Rollo wants it to mean”. Can you get more vague than “facilitate intersexual relations”?
2) He uses an appeal to “Christians are using game and it works!”. Well, no, Christians are practicing headship and it works. Or else Christians are acting immorally. Rollo’s blog is not designed to help people figure out which is which, and even if it was the very fact that he knew he was teaching immorality and did anyway would raise massive red flags.
3) I’m not sure how Rollo learning how to manipulate women into having sex with him makes him a relationship expert or marriage expert. But apparently that’s statistics now.
4) Look at this quote: It is simple law in male-female behavior patterns.
And there is part of the problem: Inter-sex relationships are not “simple”.
Just another run-of-the-mill example of “Game cures cancer!“