On Pro-Choicers, Kermit Gosnell, and Being Pro-Life

Sometimes I think pro-choice arguments are really bizarre. Do they even know what they’re saying?

There’s a pretty good article (shockingly) on the real issue with the Gosnell trial posted on Yahoo. Of course, it does have a pro-choice slant that comes peeking out at the end. http://news.yahoo.com/dont-talk-talk-abortion-now-171055921.html

Basically, what she’s saying is that Gosnell’s case is being used by pro-lifers as a sort of “knock-out” blow against abortion. It’s not true, of course. As the article says “The reality is the Gosnell case shows bad people prey on desperate people.”

The author weirdly links to an (excellent!) article from Lifesite News that apparently supports her point, when it does nothing of the sort and really doesn’t have much to do with her argument. But whatever-it’s true. The problem with this is not the fetus’s legs in jars or the horrible post-abortive conditions or even the horrific snipping of the baby’s spines. The problem is abortion. Fr. Byers down at the awesome blog “Holy Souls Hermitage” gives a great pro-life perspective on that very issue-to the point, memorable, and perfectly phrased. http://holysoulshermitage.com/2013/04/23/the-gosnell-trial-missing-the-point-so-as-to-favor-abortion/

…abortion is abortion is abortion is abortion is abortion. Within minutes, one is dead and one is injured if not also murdered. Death. Always. That’s what everyone should learn. The baby doesn’t care about dirty or unsanitary conditions.

And yet, reading the comments of the Yahoo article, you’d be amazed at what people say. I don’t think a lot of pro-choicers even understand what the pro-life position really is. For that matter, I don’t think a lot of pro-lifers get it either. I’ve been following one exchange in the comments section-we’ll call our pro-life poster Pro-life Pete and we’ll group all our pro-choice posters together as Pro-choice Cheryl. It’s a fascinating discussion (Pete really holds his own, too!)

Pete: [He is responding to the article.] Good point. The real problem is the abortions. Glad we straightened that out…

I just think that it’s funny how mad we are about the babies killed immediately after they leave the womb, but if they were still inside we wouldn’t really care. And also how Obama’s response to all of this is to reaffirm his commitment to Planned Parenthood. Great message that sends…

Cheryl: [Paraphrasing-A third trimester abortion is always a tragedy in or out of the womb, 99% of abortions don’t occur in the first or second trimester, some anti-choice people (her words) want to ban a pill that only causes abortions in the first two months of pregnancy, some are even against morning after pills and contraceptives that MIGHT cause abortions! Gasp! The horror!]

The issue of 3rd trimester abortions may be controversial, but it’s basically a straw man argument to suggest that abortion should be banned because of the tragedy of 3rd trimester abortions.

Pete: It’s interesting that you brought that up, since I never made any argument based on third trimester abortion.

In any case, I’m one of those crazy right wing extremist “cling to their guns and religion” pro-life radicals who is against abortion in every circumstance-including the morning after pill. And of course this means that I don’t care about rape victims too, right? [Good job Pete! Nice response.]

Cheryl: I actually respect people more if they are consistent in their abortion beliefs. Most people say abortion is wrong, except in the cases of rape or incest. That’s just dumb. If abortion is murder (it isn’t), then it’s murder no matter how the fetus was conceived…People who want abortion only in cases of rape and incest are simply judgmental idiots who want women to be punished for having sex. I don’t think being anti-choice is radical. It’s just wrong. It’s taking control over a woman’s body away from her. An adult human being cannot be forced to undergo a medical procedure, even to save a life. Even AFTER DEATH we cannot be forced to donate organs that will save a life. Anybody who wants to save lives should make post-death organ donation mandatory. Then we can start debating how far we should be able to go to allow the government to control living people’s bodies. [There are a ridiculous amount of things wrong with this-more on that later. Pete hits upon arguably the most glaring one.]

Pete: That’s a good point. I’m against abortion in the case of rape or incest. [Good job, Pete! Way to be consistent.]

Cheryl: [This time Cheryl is responding to Pete’s comment at the end of his post about the message Obama is sending.] Obama’s message is that he’s pro-choice, and wants to keep abortion accessible. Nothing more or less

Pete: My point exactly. [Bravo, Pete. Bravo.]

Our buddy Pete did a heck of a job there. First of all, he’s nailed Obama’s reaction- “Uh-oh! The abortion industry might take a hit! I better make sure they know I support them.” His reaction to this horrific case is to make sure that pro-choicers know he’s on their side! Blech.

Let’s take a look at Cheryl’s little rant. “An adult woman cannot be forced to undergo a medical procedure, even to save a life.” Oh, the irony. It’s just beautiful. Yes, it’s the pro-LIFERS who think that women should undergo an invasive medical procedure. Let’s think about that for a moment.

That, of course, pretty much takes down her whole bizarre argument of “mandatory post-death organ donation”. Nobody wants a woman to undergo any medical procedures. Do you really know what pro-lifers want? They want a child to NOT BE KILLED. That’s it. Were you raped? That’s horrible. I’m sorry. But don’t kill some other innocent person because you were raped. In bad circumstances? Horrible. But that’s no excuse to kill anybody.

I’m sorry that pregnancy is uncomfortable, but that’s not the baby’s fault (if you think this is loaded language, substitute the word “human” in your head for more scientific accuracy). You have a “right” to your body? Really? What about the baby? Contrary to Judith Jarvis Thomson’s belief, the baby isn’t some crazy kidnapped violinist. Babies are just as made for the uterus as you are made to use your arms. Don’t punish a human being for being, not even where it has to be, but where it’s SUPPOSED to be because you don’t want them there.

Cheryl did nail one thing though-let’s be consistent. Abortion is wrong in cases of rape and incest. Logically, to believe anything else is to be inconsistent, if we’re being honest with ourselves.

Cheryl’s little rant raises another thing I’ve always noticed: pro-choicers miss the point a lot. I’ve seen smart people, with doctorates even, talking about politics and casually bringing up pro-life people that are “only single issue voters” and then having a lovely smug little conspiratorial laugh with the other liberal they’re discussing this with, as if to say, “Ha, those idiot right wing lunatics!”. I overheard one conversation between that Doctor and one of his students almost literally end with the exact phrase, “I’m in favor of people voting for who they want, but not if it’s stupid!”. Her (the student’s) example of “Stupid” was basically anybody who voted for Romney, but especially if they voted for Romney just to try and keep Obama out of office (ahem, me, for example), pro-life single issue voters (me), or people who support the NRA (me). And the Doctor agreed wholeheartedly with her! Imagine that. This man taught History at a college and he doesn’t even understand the pro-life position, because if he did, he’d realize WHY so many pro-lifers were single issue voters. It’s because we think abortion is murder. Is that an important enough reason for you? That neither of them understood that simple concept underlying the entire pro-life position just floored me. Amazing.

So yes, the world should learn about Kermit Gosnell. But let’s also learn about the “clean” cases. The ones that went with no hitches. The ones where the abortion went perfectly, the woman was uninjured at the end of it, and all legalities were handled smoothly. Because it is there where the true evil lies. That is when murder is carried out-and nobody cares. How the Devil must be laughing at us right now.

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6 Responses to On Pro-Choicers, Kermit Gosnell, and Being Pro-Life

  1. Beth Impson says:

    Yes, the problem is abortion, period. We need to use this horrific case to showcase the logical end to our allowing the murder of the unborn *at all*, rather than making it about Gosnell only. It’s never right to execute an innocent for our own convenience or comfort.

  2. Beth Impson says:

    p.s. I got here from WWWtW. 🙂

  3. Terry Morris says:

    I like Pete’s style. He doesn’t go off on unnecessary tangents, he just takes a position and sticks to it. Good for him.

    I was a little surprised that Cheryl didn’t resort to the ‘we can’t legislate morality’ argument, or its close, yet less dogmatic relative, ‘we shouldn’t legislate morality.’ But, of course, she makes a moral argument for abortion when she says it’s wrong to deny women the right to choose over their own bodies, or however exactly she phrased it. So maybe she understands the illogic of that argument, or maybe she just didn’t think of it. Who knows? Pete probably could have brought it out of her had he felt the need to try. But he seems to be pretty contented with saying what needs to be said, and no more. That’s a pretty rare quality actually.

    • I think Pete was smart in that he didn’t go down any unnecessary rabbit holes. By sticking to his guns he made sure his position was very clear, and it was therefore easier for him to pick apart holes in his opponent’s argument since he wasn’t flailing his arms around like an eight armed octopus.

      I think in these types of debates it’s important to discuss the issue at hand, and Pete is a good example of that. He represented very well.

      • Terry Morris says:

        Agreed. Many of us could learn a thing or two from Pete’s excellent example. Sometimes less really is more, as they say.

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